About Sounding Off

Ted Robinson of NBCSports.com fires away on what’s making news in Major League Baseball, the National Football League and professional tennis.

Robinson called the play-by-play on NBC's Major League Baseball Game of the Week telecasts from 1986-89. Additionally, he has done play-by-play for the Minnesota Twins, San Francisco Giants, and New York Mets. Since 2000 Robinson has provided play-by-play for NBC Sports on the French Open and Wimbledon. He also previously served in that role at the U.S. Open for USA Network. Robinson is also the play-by-play voice of the San Francisco 49ers on KNBR.



McGwire getting a raw deal

Posted: Monday, January 12, 2009 5:23 PM

A Hall of Fame vote has never been on my wish list. I feel neither worthy nor proper in determining an honor that has rewards both emotional and material. For the same reason, I have declined invitations to vote for the Heisman Trophy and in the Harris Poll.

 

But I acknowledge that to hold this space, I must have a “take.” Thus in that spirit, here goes: Mark McGwire is a Hall of Famer. Today, tomorrow, forever.

 

His vote total decreased this year, a trend I find surprising. My belief was that, over time, the disclosure of the depth of the use of performance-enhancing substances (PES) during the BALCO era would cast a different light on McGwire’s candidacy. Three years in, I am wondering if I will be right.

 

More voters are revealing their choices and it’s hard to argue that transparency is bad. I found the comments of a Boston voter puzzling and borderline deceiving. The man in question defended his anti-McGwire stance with the claim that McGwire was “one-dimensional.”

 

Let’s look at that more closely.

 

If we accept the premise, then we must ask what exactly is the problem with dominating the most important offensive dimension? McGwire, Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa were the greatest home run hitters of their era. Bonds won the career battle but McGwire was the pioneer.

As a rookie, he hit 50 (49 officially -- for one, which I personally called as an Oakland A’s broadcaster cleared the Oakland Coliseum fence and caromed off an iron railing in front of the bleachers back on to the field. The umpires didn’t move as quickly back then and missed the call) and smashed the rookie record (37 by Al Rosen), a sign of dominance.

 

McGwire was the first to hit 50 home runs in four consecutive seasons, a mark Bonds reached only once.

 

One-dimensional? McGwire won a Gold Glove, an award often scoffed at by the Numbers Crowd. Although no one should confuse McGwire with Keith Hernandez, the Gold Glove is voted on by managers and coaches.

 

Another thought rushes to me when I consider the phrase “one dimensional” when used as an insult, the manner in which the Boston writer intended. (Disclaimer 1: here we will violate, mildly, a personal rule against invoking the comparison argument with any present Hall of Famers. It is never the intent here to denigrate anyone already so honored, however…would that writer call Nolan Ryan “one-dimensional?” Ryan’s resume leads with the career strikeout record, which he smashed and, like McGwire, is a symbol of dominance. (Disclaimer 2: I acknowledge that strikeouts are regarded by many voters as significant, a stance with which I don’t agree).

 

Strikeouts must be the reason Ryan is in the Hall. It can’t be his 324 wins because his career winning percentage is barely over .500 (.526). Surely, no rational person would conclude that seven regular season no-hitters warrant Hall of Fame inclusion.

 

So I wonder what distinction is drawn between Ryan’s strikeouts and McGwire’s home runs?

 

Which leads to Part 2 of the Boston writer’s answer -- the segue into steroids. Inevitably, any objection to McGwire’s candidacy reverts to this issue. Let’s check the facts, an uncommon exercise in this matter.

 

McGwire is mentioned 10 times in the Mitchell Report, eight references are direct to the 1998 discovery of “andro” in his locker. We remind that andro – the steroid precursor was -- at the time, legal without prescription.

 

The other two references: the A’s suspicions of Jose Canseco’s use and then-Oakland general manager Sandy Alderson’s emphasis that he never considered testing McGwire.

 

So we have a player “convicted” by our own eyesight (admittedly a valid method) and his horrendous testimony before Congress (McGwire followed sound legal advice that was dispensed by attorneys who were shockingly ignorant or callous towards McGwire’s image. In either case, it was McGwire’s responsibility and he has paid a steep price).

 

The point: McGwire was not involved in BALCO or Kirk Radomski or the Orlando mail king or any other sordid distribution plot that has snagged numbers of players in recent years. This is not to proclaim his innocence, rather to insure a full understanding of McGwire’s position relative to his peers in Hall of Fame contention. Nor is this meant to minimize or condone the actions of this era.

 

Instead, I believe there are two points to emphasize:

1) Players should be judged against their peers. The brightest sportswriter I know, Bruce Jenkins of the San Francisco Chronicle, shined the light for me on this idea.

For McGwire, he should be judged within an era where we know with certainty that steroid/HGH use was widespread, both by hitters and pitchers. Thus, if a voter rejects McGwire for ethical reasons, the same standard must be used for Bonds, Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro (failed drug test), Pudge Rodriguez, and even Roger Clemens.

 

In fact, here’s a hypothetical question: is Jim Thome a Hall of Famer? He has the home run credentials. He wears the “one dimensional” badge every bit as much as McGwire. His name has never been connected with any PES use. But if a voter chooses to use ethics in judging this era, where does he/she stop? What player is above and beyond suspicion? Can a voter declare with certainty that Thome, or any of his peers, attained their numbers without artificial means? (Again, this is not to accuse Thome or anyone else. It is simply asking how a voter can judge some but not others when evidence is overwhelming about rampant PES use).

2) Voters cannot split careers. A particular argument, stunning in its lack of sense, makes the rounds about Bonds. Since suspicions of his possibly using performance-enhancing substances began in the late 1990s, Bonds could be Hall of Fame by virtue of his three MVP awards pre the PES era. Don’t you love that stance: it’s OK for someone to cheat if they’ve already had a fine career but if you’re a marginal player struggling to stay in the big leagues or a Triple-A player watching your peers use any means available to reach the show, you’re out of luck. No cheating allowed.

 

Any McGwire supporter, and likely the man himself, must be taken aback by the results. The anti-PES crusade, three years in, is showing no sign of slackening. McGwire bears the brunt of this storm. He is the first of his era to appear before the tribunal. (Interesting that Rickey Henderson, a deserving inductee, drew no suspicion. He played with a rock hard physique, no body fat and rippling muscle, until he was 42).

No, this inquisition is about power. It’s about home runs and McGwire has appeared first before the body of writers acting as a collective Torquemada.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

You are a complete chucklehead.  McGwire's problem was agreeing to appear and then declining to answer anything with the pithy quip "I'm not here to talk about the past."  I got news for you & him - he wasn't there to talk about baseball's present since he ran as far and as fast as he could once he retired.  That and that alone shows that he felt he couldn't talk about the past, which raises the question - why?  If he only used andro, which was ok, why not?  Because he obviously was sharing a trainer and injections with Jose Steroid Conseco.  Should be that even a baseball writer can figure that one out.
He is a disgraceful cheater who sealed his fate before Congress.
Good points, but let's get Andre Dawson in before we tackle the McGwire issue.
If McGwire is in then Maris should be there too!!!
I liked the article and you brought up a great point. It's amazing to me how 'selective' we as a culture can be and I find it very interesting how people can be 'shocked' when the find out certain things-moral, ethical or not...we all make mistakes and if something comes into light after the fact it does taint their character, but if there's to be a bias or a predisposition prior to voting that has no bearing on the facts...then it's a vote of ignorance and petty self indulgence.
Of course, that's my two cents too. Again, nice article.
The HOF voters got it right.  McGuire shouldn't be in the HOF because, in our hearts, we know he cheated.  So did Bonds and Sosa, and when their time comes, they should be denied also.  Your point about Bonds is correct.  He cheated for a significant part of his career and he cheated for the glory of it.  That shold negate what he did before.
He's as guilty as Shoeless Joe and you're never going to see him in the Hall either.
He is a liar and a doper.  Arogance personified in the face of a Senate hearing.  He doesn't deserve anything but an asterick by his name.  I would not cross the street to "pay" for his autograph. I glad my sons have real baseball heroes. Ask them about Mark and even they understand he is tainted.
"Surely, no rational person would conclude that seven regular season no-hitters warrant Hall of Fame inclusion"

I have to assume this is sarcasm, right?  Because I cannot think a rational person would NOT count SEVEN no hitters as reason for Hall of Fame Inclusion.  Of course that's reason for inclusion.  No other pitcher has come close
I Quote "McGwire, Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa were the greatest home run hitters of their era. Bonds won the career battle but McGwire was the pioneer."

My Quote "McGwire, Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa were the greatest Druggies  of their era. Bonds won the career Druggie title but McGwire was the Druggie pioneer."

PS, Looking at the Bio for the writer, I don't see any actual playing experience??
Ted, I enjoy your writing, but I disagree with you on this one. None of the cheaters should be in the Hall.
McGwire was a GREAT player and should be in the Hall of Fame he brought back SO MUCH excitement to the game after the baseball strike which made fans really lose interest in baseball and made they very mad. Us fans were feed up with the spoiled millionaires.

Pete Rose is the real tragedy he was one of the greatest players I have ever seen play the game.
I'm biased as I'm a diehard Cardinal fan.  However, you hit the nail on the head, compare him to his peers!  If he's not HOF material, I don't know what is.  He invoked FEAR into pitcher's.  Only after he took PES did Bonds do that.  Mark is being held to another standard and it isn't fair.  I hope the voters see the error of their ways and elect him before it's too late.  The same goes for Pete Rose!
It is a shame that Mark McGwire used performance-enhancing drugs.  I don't know when he started and when he ended (if ever) but with all the children watching his every move what type of reputation does he have with them.  Children who play the game of baseball usually pick stars like McGwire to look up to and when he does stupid things like use drugs then he should be taken off the Hall of Fame ballot next year and be left off.  I think what he did is a lot worse than what Pete Rose did and Pete's banned from baseball for life!!  Anybody who uses drugs to better someone on the field should be taken off the field and out of baseball.  
I don't understand why relief pitchers like Lee Smith has such trouble being elected.  He held the record for career saves until Hoffman of San Diego broke it.  Being a closer out of the bullpen is just as difficult a job as hitting a career .300, hitting 70 home runs, etc...  You have to be a consistent pitcher and have a lot of support behind you.  When Lee Smith was pitching out of the bullpen, it wasn't like it is now when the closer only pitches one inning usually.  Let's get some of the accredible pitchers into the Hall of Fame.
What is so hard to grasp about this?!  Of COURSE McGwire doesn't deserve to be in the HOF.  Yes, he put up the numbers, but he did it by cheating, so why, oh why, would you or anyone else think he should be rewarded for it?  What an asanine position to take!  You have heard of athletes being stripped of medals for cheating, right?  Geez, get a clue!
As a St. Louis Cardinals fan, I was thrilled to be caught up in McGwire-mania when Mark was belting homers left and right.  Today, you would have to pay me to take a McGwire autograph.  The writer of this article is delusional.  McGwire doesn't deserve the Hall of Fame and never will.  He nailed his own casket shut and has no one to blame but himself.
The reason people are not more favorable to McGuire is that he appears to be a liar.  If he had just said "I did it" he probably would be much better thought of.  Jason Giambi tells the truth and we hear no more about it, McGuire, Bonds and Clemens lied (as did Pete Rose) so no one is giving them a break.  Its not the crime its the coverup (Richard Nixon).
mark mcgwire was the greatist home run hitter of our  era ,steriods were taken for nagging injuries,they were not taken for more hits or power since everybody who has played baseball knows its all about hand to eye speed .sports writers are just showing they have never played the game
What about Lefty O'Doul?
If McGwire cheated he doesn't belong in. He got salary increases he didn't deserve so why give him any more reward.

An unspoken issue though is what should be done about all these sports reporters who oohhed and ahhhed McGwire, Bonds, and Sosa, etc. at the height of home run mania instead of investigating why these guys had the size of the Incredible Hulk.

In my opinion any sports reporter who did not do due diligence when reporting about these players does not belong in the HOF either when it comes time for them to be considered.
Curt Shilling said it best. 50% of all major leaguers, including pitchers, and he did not exclude himself, used performance enhancing drugs from 1996 -2005 for sure. Either no one gets in who had most of their career during that era or we throw out any assumptions about anyone who did not test positive.
McGuire showed he didn't need anything to hit tons of Home runs as he hit 49 or 50 as you called it in Oakland as a 220 lb. rookie in the late '80s which is one of the hardest parks in the majors to hit the long ball.
Holding McGwire responsible for using performance enhancing drugs is like holding a toddler responsible for misbehaving. You need to go up the ladder to the parent. In this case, the parent, Bud Seligturned a blind eye to what he ALLOWED to go on because it was putting butts in the seats. Using drugs was in fact permissible on his watch. McGwire absolutely belongs in the HOF, but I guess it's more fun for all of us in the cheap seats to sit back and point our fingers at the bad guy..even if we were the same ones using the same finger to chant how he was "Number One" during what was arguably a very exciting time in baseball.
Let Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe (shouldn't his "lifetime ban" be over by now?) in, then we'll talk about McGwire.

I say let all the "cheaters" in.  Let's keep in mind that it was MLB itself that dropped the ball on this issue by not having testing in place.  I'm not condoning cheating, but you can't punish people who never tested positive because the proper testing wasn't in place.  That's like flunking an entire class on suspicion of cheating when the teacher was a deaf and blind person.  Palmiero and anyone else who actually failed a test should be denied.  Finally, I for one, LOVED the excitement of the steroid era - it made me a baseball fan again after MLB lost me with the 1994 strike.
the entire cast and crew of this era of baseball don't deserve to take tickets for the parking lot at the Hall of Fame.  They don't deserve to enter a baseball stadium again, ever.  I don't care if we're talking about the little league park down the street from their house.  No diamonds for them, ever again.  If they want to be in any HoF they can found their own, with a giant Asterisk over the roof.
Mcguire,Jackson, and any other Baseball Player, in
history, should be in the Hall of Fame if they were
talented enough to set records for their achievments
and NO ONE PERSON, OR GROUP should have the right
to block them. I will visit the hall when they actually put them in. In the meantime the real Hall of famers are in my mind and my heart, I love Baseball
but I do not love the jerks that try to protect us from the Truth
Fans got the raw deal, NOT MG.  You forget he was idolized and made tons of money while conning all of America.  Hey, Madoff gave millions to charities, does that Forgive him of what he's done?  Can't believe the shaloowness of your perspective.  
Are you braindead! Cheat Cheat - Never Beat!
i am a die hard cardinal fan--i have enormous respect for tony--and what i respect about tony is his loyalty to mark--but--no way--no to McGwire, no to bonds, no to sosa, no to palmaro,, no to clemens, "HALL OF FAME"---think about those words,because if mcgwire goes in then so do the other cheaters--and in 15 years--there will be a borderline "jim rice" who cheated and he will get in to
maybe he did maybe he didnt its all hearsay. Just like any name of that era. so in all reality no player from about1995 through 2005 should make the hall if this is the way we think.
McGwire had good years before any perceived drug use and if we take into account of other sports figures in whatever sport, DUI's, gun toting, Bar brawls and the like then McGwire should be considered a gentleman of the sport.  To my knowledge he hasn't been involved in any of the above incidents.  Free agency with all the millions involved has ruined sports and many players in other sports have given it a bad name because they think with their millions they can do just about anything they want to.  Mark McGwire is and always be a class individual.
There is no proof that I'm aware of that McGwire cheated.  On the other hand, there's no proof that he didn't.  His failure to answer direct questions at the aforementioned Senate hearing, and his subsequent refusal to comment about this subject since the date of the hearing has unfortunately cast him in a highly suspicious light.  The result - no support for an HOF induction.

The real problem with all of this steroid talk is that baseball's top management never did anything about the steroid problem while it was at it's height.  Most culpable of all is our current braindead commissioner, Bud Selig.  When balls started flying out of parks all over the country & players started to resemble bulked-up WWF brawlers, you might have thought that anyone with a modicum of intelligence might have wondered what was going on.  But "Birdbrain" Bud & the rest of the owners buried their heads in the sand, thankful that the fireworks generated by Sosa & McGwire & Bonds helped MLB recover from the asinine work-stoppage of 1994.  They are the real villains, not McGwire.  

If you give anybody a lot of rope (with a smile on your face), most likely that person will take it and run with it.

I'm not gonna lose any sleep over McGwire, though.  I'd rather see Pete Rose in the hall before Mark McGwire, unless somebody can prove that Rose bet on games while he was an active player.  It's his playing career that deserves HOF induction, not his time as a manager.
I agree with the first poster, you are a chucklehead..Good Grief
Though the article was well written, it cannot stand up to close scrutiny. There's no reason to take the long way around the barn here - McGwire cheated. It's that plain, it's that simple. There's no grey area here to loose one's focus on. If McGwire does make it into The Hall, it should be AFTER Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson are inducted.
I think it's shameful for McGwire (or Bonds or Sosa)to even be mentioned worthy of the Hall of Fame. I don't care what their numbers are, were, or could have been. I'm tired of hearing - "Everybody did it" - does that mean everyone in the steroid era was equally guilty or equally innocent. Without chemically enhancing their performance, they had a couple of good years, but nothing noteworthy. With the drugs, they're Hall of Famers????

I'm taking my kids to Cooperstown this summer, but will never go again if any of them enter the Hall.

Why is it that one guy, Canseco, can point his finger at a bunch of people and everyone believes him? He is not the most upstanding guy and never mind the people he pointed at have never done anything wrong. All of a sudden they are the bad guys and he comes out looking golden. How does that work? Not that I don't think everyone is innocent but why are we taking his word? I read a good portion of Mitchells report and I'm sorry but a lot of it seemed to be finger pointing with not a lot of facts to back it up. It's to bad that accusations are ruining peoples reputations, ecpecially coming from a stand up citizen like Canseco. I'd vote for Mark McGuire in a heartbeat.
Mark Mcgwire in the HOF FORGET it. So he would have you believe,that as we get older,our bodies IMPROVE?? Him and Clemens,,the only way they are getting into the HOF is by buying a ticket
Totally off with advocating for Big Mac in the HOF. Performance enhancing drugs are wrong and honoring someone who abused them would be sending the wrong message to the youth of America.  Trust me, Big Mac would have broken down physically without enhancements.
This is ridiculous. It is cut and dry. A .263 lifetime hitter with only 1,626 hits in 16 seasons? Hall of Fame? Please. Sure, 583 HRs used to be a lock for the Hall (the standard being 500), but you can take those rules and throw them out the window for this dark era in the game. Take a minute to compare the MLB HR average by decade, and watch them quickly increase in the 90's. I remember when 25 HR was a big deal in 1984. Thankfully baseball finally did something about it and now once again hitting homeruns in the upper 20's is respectful. Hitting 28 HR from 1995-2004 basically meant you were off the sauce. He cheated, he lied to congress, and he ran into hiding like a coward. I was a McGwire supporter in the "magic" summer of 98, but little did I know why 2 players broke Maris' 37 year old record in the same season.
McGwire will NEVER get into the Hall. This is a stain on baseball that will never come out. And, quite honestly, other than the homeruns, his numbers do not justify induction.
Baseball writers should "NOT" be in charge of voting for the HOF, they simply prove year in and year out they are not capable. The voting should be made by all living HOF'ers only, end of story
You people are delusional. Roids werent tested for so baseball didnt care about them obviously. Does that make using them right? No it doesnt but if you want cheaters out, gaylord Perry jimmied up the ball anyway he could get away with and he is a hall of famer. If a pitcher does it, its somehow acceptable, if a hitter does it its some how evil. Bonds has never been proven to have juiced. Do I think he did? yes, but I always thought we were inncent until PROVEN otherwise but not to the geniuses who spew venom on a board like this. And to the idiot sounding off about Shoeless Joe, he belongs in there too. A lifetime ban is just that. He is dead, thus his ban is over. Put him in.
You are a moron. Just how do you know they were "the best home run hitters of their era"? Maybe there would have been a dozen better power hitters had everyone cheated.
Here are my reasons for why McGwire and the many other players suspected (or known) to have used PES.
1. Look at a picture of Bonds, McGwire and Sosa at 28 and at 38. Lean, powerful athletes become bloated cartoons.
2. Since when did an athlete reach 30 and then hit the accelerator and start putting up the best numbers of their careers? How many times did Hank Aaron hit 50 homers in one year? How old were Ruth, Mantle and Maris when they reached (or almost) 60 homers?
3. One of the greatest all around players of all time, Frank Robinson, never hit 50 homers in a season. He also was the only player to hit a ball completely out of Memorial Stadium. He was as strong as there was and he never looked like a WWF wrestler.  He held the record for home runs by an Oriole until about 10 years ago. A former stick thin, warning track power hitter turned muscle bound bomber named Brady Anderson now has the record because he hit 50 homers in one season.
4. The comparison to peers argument. I don't think anyone has ever questioned the source of Bo Jackson's power and strength. It is sad that we never got to see what he could really do over a full career. Instead we got to see numbers racked up by hitters that needed drugs to do what Bo did naturally. For pitchers I think one direct peer comparison is all that is needed.  Greg Maddux and Roger Clemens. The only substance that I know Maddux used was frozen water.
Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe will never be let in because of questionable ethics but not their abilities and statistics. You believe McGwire and others should be allowed in even though they used questionable ethics to enhance their abilities and statistics.
Your standards for induction are unique.
Being a closer out of the bullpen is just a difficult job as hitting a career .300???? Are you kidding me, you obviously do not know baseball that well!
I don't agree with you, but fine.  Let McGwire in the HOF, but here is the deal.  He has to come completely clean on his use of PES.  That is fair.  So that the vote is based on his real talent with ALL the factors taken in consideration.

But he won't.  Because those who vote had a vested interest in keeping up scam that is PES in major league baseball (and all sports, for that matter)

Having them vote on a the HOF is like having the foxes voting on the best chicken!
apples and oranges.....but maybe if he were in the NFL and cried and sobbed like coke head Irving, he would get voted in to the hall too
I was a big McGwire fan and I love the Cardinals.  However, once he went before Congress and screwed his own image, I was done with him.  I gave away the jersey I bought with his name on it because I would have never worn it again.  He should not be in the Hall and I thank the voters for not putting him in such a place of honor!!!
McGwire himself apparently has no interest in being in the HOF. After all, induction is based on things done in the past...and as we all know, Mark doesn't want to talk about the past!!
Show me a "Positive" test for PES and then you can ban him from the HOF and call him a doper and cheater. But you don't have that do you? Innocent until proven guilty, it's the law of the land.  


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):